Curse

Zuranthium · Dec 04, 2007, 07:12 AM // 07:12

No, screw that, they are just dumb. Especially Burning.

~Z

Snow Bunny · Dec 04, 2007, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

I actually like Imperial though. It's a great map for pushing flaggers.

Probably my favorite map, for that reason.

Kaon · Dec 04, 2007, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Actually, with good aggroing strategies, the catamaps can be a great place to play on and really lead to different strategies and situations than in another non-catapult map.

Burton2000 · Dec 04, 2007, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Well id have the cata maps in rotation if certain bugs were fixed and the randomness of the cata sorted out.

Zuranthium · Dec 04, 2007, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

Actually, with good aggroing strategies, the catamaps can be a great place to play on and really lead to different strategies and situations than in another non-catapult map.

I dislike how the Cata maps are not mirror images. You want the playing field to be absolutely equal.

~Z

l Teh Mighty Warrior l · Dec 06, 2007, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Yea true, cata maps are garbage atm with the random catas.

1)Imperial/Jade/Nomads (Make it random)
2)Burning Isle
3)Druids
4)Meditation
5)Frozen
6)Nomads/Imperial/Jade (Make it random)

IMMORTAlMITCH · Dec 06, 2007, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Burning is pretty much a steaming pile of shit as well.

It's almost exclusively degenerate spike builds or hex/condi pressure :/

I actually really like the current rotation, though I'm not convinced about meditation just yet.

Yue · Dec 06, 2007, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Meditation and Solitude are the ultimate pve halls.

Winstar · Dec 06, 2007, 04:10 PM // 16:10

I hadn't played on meditation forever. Its so pretty I stop and take screenshots during the match.

l Teh Mighty Warrior l · Dec 06, 2007, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Burning is pretty much a steaming pile of shit as well.

It's almost exclusively degenerate spike builds or hex/condi pressure :/

I actually really like the current rotation, though I'm not convinced about meditation just yet.

I used to think that too, until I did rawr cup with RiP. Long story short final was on burning, the one build they ran really well wouldn't work on burning vs euro balanced. Moral of the story, if you're a one build guild burning isle either makes or breaks you.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Dec 07, 2007, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by l Teh Mighty Warrior l

I used to think that too, until I did rawr cup with RiP. Long story short final was on burning, the one build they ran really well wouldn't work on burning vs euro balanced. Moral of the story, if you're a one build guild burning isle either makes or breaks you.

Didn't they run some weird dervish spike?

Anyway their normal build wouldnt work that well on burning because they dont have much defense and generally win by splitting/running around.

Div · Dec 07, 2007, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Having 1 or 2 strong 8v8 maps with little splitting ability will hurt 1 build wonder teams that run around a lot, without necessarily promoting degenerate play in general because there are 4-5 other maps still. There will be some nasty stuff being played on that map, but for a guild to be successful they have to handle other maps as well. If anything, it increases diversity and helps teams that have multiple builds (for both splitting, 8v8, and whatever)

Greedy Gus · Dec 07, 2007, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Main problem of burning isle remains that it's such a tight space to fight at the flagstand (similar to old jade). I'd agree that keeping a map in the rotation that isn't very split-friendly is a good idea to discourage one-build-wonders (especially because heavy splitting is one of the easier teambuild strategies, believe it or not). But the best solution remains random map selections, if at the very least for one or two maps for the AT like Teh Mighty Warrior suggested.

Zuranthium · Dec 07, 2007, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Having 1 or 2 strong 8v8 maps with little splitting ability will hurt 1 build wonder teams that run around a lot, without necessarily promoting degenerate play in general because there are 4-5 other maps still. There will be some nasty stuff being played on that map, but for a guild to be successful they have to handle other maps as well. If anything, it increases diversity and helps teams that have multiple builds (for both splitting, 8v8, and whatever)

Although I can see some merit in that line of thought, I don't like building for a specific map. Knowing the team you'll fight and knowing you'll play on Burning, for example, doesn't test Guilds' ability to 8v8 in comparison to testing how well they Split so much as it tests their ability to know what the other guild tends to run on that map and build against it. If maps were randomized, Obs Mode would still be enough reason for Guilds to have plenty of different builds, or least build variations, so they can switch between matches and don't get specced against.

I don't really like the idea of promoting strict 8v8 in the first place. Fluid, large-scale map movement should always be an option in GvG and I would suggest HA for people who dislike having to play like that...

~Z

(I fail at making sure my sentences make grammatical sense before hitting 'Reply')

Seamus Finn · Dec 07, 2007, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by l Teh Mighty Warrior l

I used to think that too, until I did rawr cup with RiP. Long story short final was on burning, the one build they ran really well wouldn't work on burning vs euro balanced. Moral of the story, if you're a one build guild burning isle either makes or breaks you.

If the last statement were true, the same could be said about Frozen I suppose...

Actually we did fine on burning with our build earlier in the turnament. I was told the decision to run lameway derv spike had little to do with our "one build" and more with not having the players we needed to play our "one build".

Burning is probably more splittable than most people realize and I don't really think that there are any "strong 8v8" maps unless your build makes a point of forcing that 8v8 fight. I personally dislike the map because you will inevitably fight the most degenerate builds possible on that map, regardless of whether or not they are the best choice. And whether or not people think is will somehow force this utopian 8v8 balanced slugfest, what you will actually see 90% of the time is Paraspike vs. Dervspike or whatever Halls build has recenty been modded to gvg.

TheOneMephisto · Dec 08, 2007, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Why can't ANet just use randomized maps?

Wasteland Squidget · Dec 08, 2007, 12:34 AM // 00:34

The biggest problem with Burning on splits is the way the base is constructed. A defense force can sit in the boat and be in range of half the outer NPCs, and the boat itself is extremely hard to push in too.

That said, it's an amazing teleporting map, and if you're going to split on Burning, packing lots of shadow steps is a good way to do it. With the two-level construction, you can often avoid snares when pushing or get out of danger with good use of shadowstepping.

l Teh Mighty Warrior l · Dec 10, 2007, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Anyway their normal build wouldnt work that well on burning because they dont have much defense and generally win by splitting/running around.

My point exactly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

If the last statement were true, the same could be said about Frozen I suppose...

I agree, the map rotation should be constructed so the final match is never on Frozen, Druids, or Burning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

Actually we did fine on burning with our build earlier in the turnament. I was told the decision to run lameway derv spike had little to do with our "one build" and more with not having the players we needed to play our "one build".

Burning is probably more splittable than most people realize

Well we knew that they were going to run the euro balanced, 2 shock axe 1 blockagon, 1 esurge, 1 e/rt bsurge + splinter, 3 monks. The build was designed with this in mind, 2 bsurge > their warriors, mesmer with powerlock sits on their mesmer till vod and plocks their splinters at vod.

Unfortunately their mesmer wasn't shut down at all the whole game, causing us more deaths than we should of had. Splinters weren't shut down at vod either despite the fact that we had power lock just to shut him down. We actually had it won, we killed both of their warriors and they were out of sigs, but their mesmer got off two fleshes even though our mesmer was still alive, ressed the two dead warriors, and proceeded to wipe us. The 3 war build would not have worked, not against that build, against that team which was somewhat decent, and not on that map. If it was frozen isle it would of been a different story.

Anyways, back on topic, I see burning as a necessary evil, along with frozen and druids.

Random maps would be ftw though.

Kaon · Dec 10, 2007, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Having 1 or 2 strong 8v8 maps with little splitting ability will hurt 1 build wonder teams that run around a lot, without necessarily promoting degenerate play in general because there are 4-5 other maps still. There will be some nasty stuff being played on that map, but for a guild to be successful they have to handle other maps as well. If anything, it increases diversity and helps teams that have multiple builds (for both splitting, 8v8, and whatever)

I see meditation and nomads in the list, they're very 8v8 maps so you dont need burning.

Seamus Finn · Dec 10, 2007, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

I see meditation and nomads in the list, they're very 8v8 maps so you dont need burning.

Categorizing a map as a "split map" or an "8v8 map" is a pretty superficial reading of a map. I don't think of meditation as an 8v8 map at all because it is far too much a flagging map to be seen as anything else really. And the way tha burning is considered an 8v8 map is unlike the manner in which Imperial can be considered an 8v8 map, etc.